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Dharma Talk with IkuShun Desiree Webster - The Three Dharma Seals

  • Wednesday, July 29, 2026
  • 11:00 AM - 11:30 AM
  • Sansui-ji

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Talk Notes

Dear friends,

For the next two Wednesdays, I would like to talk about some foundational teachings of the Buddha.  The first is called,  “The Three Dharma Seals”, referred to in some lineages as “The Three Marks of Existence.” Then next week, I will continue with what I think of as part of the set, known as “The Three Doors of Liberation.” 

I want to say that I hope to offer these fundamental teachings as an invitation for exploration (rather than “something to believe in.”)  The teachings, the sutras, the words, are tools in which each of us can study the self–each of us can discover truths within our own set of conditions.

I may stop for comments here and there, as we go along…

Before we delve into the main topic for this evening, I want to mention “The Two Truths” in Buddhism.  As we discuss the other topics, maybe this will help inform my offering.

In Buddhist understanding, we live in 2 realms (simultaneously); the realm of the conditioned–the “historical” realm, the realm where we do have a distinct boundary of a body and a life that we live carrying out our activities and plans.  But, there is also the realm of the unconditioned–the “ultimate realm.”  These are inter-related and are two sides of the same coin; they are never apart.  In the Heart Sutra, these are described as “form is emptiness…emptiness is form.”  In the conditioned realm, there are many concepts, many constructs, and these are integrated into our sense of separateness, self-identity.  These may be coming from our thoughts, our perceptions, or outer constructs, like, traffic laws or rules at the library, etc.  In the teachings of the Buddha, however, everything–all of these perceptions, all of these constructs, also  live in the realm of the unconditioned, the ultimate realm.  A common analogy of this is, as Thich Nhat Hanh often like to  illustrate, is like waves and the ocean…we are waves, with a temporary but distinct form, in a conditioned world–but we are also the ocean itself; without distinction of waves–and the two are inseparable.  It is this understanding that allows us to consider how the wave–for a time–has its own “lifespan”--but is truly also always the ocean, and ultimately free from “coming and going…from birth and death.”  

As I move into our discussion, I want to give examples from my own life and perspective about living in both of these realms and how, sometimes, we can be offered a glimpse that somehow may jolt us into seeing that we are really both at the same time.

These examples that I’ll offer, as I said, help me to “open the hand of thought”--as Uchiyama Roshi says. (For those who don’t know of Uchiyama Roshi, he was a well known teacher and teacher of Shohuku Okumura Roshi, and a Dogen scholar.  These examples are nothing earth-shattering; it’s just that each, in some way caught me into revealing a pattern of thought that perpetuates how my mind influences who I think I am.  

I want to emphasize also that I am no longer trying so hard to “get rid of my unwanted qualities;”  I am just allowing myself to see everything more and more–in an objective way–an aha! There I go again!”way--I think the more we can objectively notice our own characteristics, the more able we are to unhide them.  Uchiyama Roshi loves to remind us that these often constant thoughts–are just “brain secretions!” In this way, I think we not only normalize the workings of our human mind–but we get caught in them less and less. It’s not a putting down of our mind; it’s just a recognition that we are human and this is how we work.

It is more and more an objective awareness and reminds me of master Shitou’s saying:

Cloud of distress is just cloud of distress

Rain of sadness is just rain of sadness

Storm of anger is just storm of anger

Without being cleaned up

Being “opening the hand of thought”

Just sit.

As the boundless sky is

the boundless sky

Including the clouds.

When we examine Buddhist teachings, these two realms are always inter-related and often illustrate understanding from the perspective of one or the other; the sutras go back and forth in their explanations and examples coming from realm or another–but when we’re able to stand in both, we see that they are never really distinct.  Maybe we’ll talk more about that later.  But, why would we want to be in touch more with this “ultimate realm?”  Freedom lies in being able to be in touch with this realm.  It gives a chance to see beyond our identity that we’ve created, which is often narrow and confining.  It gives us a chance to transform the historical realm in ways that lead to less suffering.

Tonight, I want to look at the teachings on the Three Dharma Seals.

The Three Dharma Seals are “seals of authentication”, verifying what the Buddha taught.  It is said that if the teaching does not bear these three seals, then the teaching is not a teaching of the Buddha.  These are 1) Impermanence 2) No self and 3) Nirvana* (in some lineages, taught as the other side of the coin: suffering–and often in that version, called, “The Three marks of Existence.”) In some lineages, these are listed as four Dharma Seals, with both Nirvana and suffering listed separately.  (I will expound of this a little more later on in the talk…)

Impermanence is the first Dharma Seal.  If we look at this on a day to day, even moment by moment basis, we intellectually understand that this is true–and yet!--not sure if we are really getting this fully!  Sometimes, we can catch ourselves betraying our understanding of this.

One of the fundamental verses, encouraged to remember and repeat, is The Five Remembrances.  I know that many of you know and practice with this reminder. And, this reminder is coming to us in the realm of the “conditioned” world.

“I am of a nature to grow old.

There is no way to escape growing old.

I am of a nature to have ill health.

There is no way to escape having ill health.

I am of a nature to die.

There is no way to escape death.

All that is dear to me and everyone I love are of a nature to change.

There is no way to escape being separated from them.

My actions are my only true belongings.  I cannot escape the consequences of my actions.  My actions are the ground on which I stand.

When we first encounter this verse, we may feel repelled by it.  “It sounds so glum–and pessimistic.”  Why is this helpful to hear?

As Thich Nhat Hanh states, “the Five Remembrances help us make friends with our fears around growing old, getting sick, being abandoned, and dying. They can also be a mindfulness bell to help us appreciate the wonders of life available right now.” But, Thich Nhat Hanh asks, “why would Avalokiteshvara say in the Heart Sutra that there is no birth and no death?  Why would the Buddha say that we are of a nature to die if there is no birth and death?”  Because in the Five Remembrances, the Buddha is using the tool of the relative truth–the conditioned world.  He is also aware of the absolute truth–the ultimate reality in which there is no birth and no death.  

I think the more I recite this, the more it helps me to touch with the ultimate reality–a reality that is deeper than birth and death, coming and going, you and me.  But first!--I have to recognize and accept the reality of the conditioned world–that there is sickness, old age and death–that this body is not going to live forever! 

We, as humans, habitually deepen and deepen our brain’s neural pathways creating what we like to think of as “our identity, continuing forever!”  Uchiyama Roshi said, “These tools to practice with, give us different pathways.  Why is this a good thing?  When we are in touch with this deeper reality, when we are coming close to, or, on our death bed, we are not in shock and distress over impermanence.  We have helped ourselves create a larger sense of freedom by touching the reality of this conditioned world but also,  that which is beyond our self created identity.  

Here are just a couple small examples of how I often trick myself into believing in permanence–and liking to live there!

The first one: We were considering moving a while back, something we do from time to time–and, something we’ve actually done (moving) many times over the years.  As we were considering it this time, I found myself hesitating because of our blackberry hedge.  I love having this hedge there, mostly because the birds love it as a refuge.  We are very careful to keep it trimmed so that it doesn’t encroach on any of the neighbors' yards–we know that they would much prefer that we got rid of it.  So, I tend to be protective and feel that it is up to me to keep it safe–and there…forever? –Wait a minute– I thought!--How long do I think I am going to be around to protect it–even IF I don’t move right now?--I suddenly realized that I was NOT going to be around forever–the hedge was NOT going to be around forever–everything changes and everything passes away!

I had another similar experience a couple of years before my dad died.  I had taken my dad on an outing to get him a few items–including getting some new underwear.  He found what he wanted and threw the package into the cart.  Without thinking, I grabbed another package and said, “we might as well get two–since we’re here…”  He said, “honey, how much longer do you think I’m going to be around?!”

My dad was more practical than I was–and, more realistic!

Our minds betray us.  We can intellectually tell ourselves, yes, yes, I know things are impermanent–but when it comes right down to it, our misperceptions come to the surface!  What can we do about this?  Just have an awareness!  Just recognize this–again and again–and allow examples like this to be tools to recall. I think these repeated recollections can create new pathways, so that we really can grasp this on a deeper level.

The next Dharma Seal is “no-self.”  What does this mean? 

Does it mean that I am nothing? Does it mean that I am not a person, living in this world?  As we talk about emptiness next week, we’ll talk further about what we are made of–and, how this is, in addition to, or, beyond, who we think we are.  “Think” we are is a big clue.  Our identity has been carved out–again and again–mostly by our own mind!  Thay often said that we are each made of “non-self” elements.  In fact, there is no identity that we can find that is who we think we are.  “Desiree” is made of all non-self elements and bits and pieces of all of existence, really.  We know scientifically that our bones and blood are made of stars–calcium and iron. It is not a question of do I exist or not exist—it is a recognition of these myriad things that have come together for this manifestation to appear. It doesn’t take much to see how my mother and father are in me—and how their karma and their actions are also there. When things arise in me, including my perceptions around how the world is, I can also recognize ah! That perception is influenced by my dad’s upbringing…or my mom’s experiences and so forth…

I’m not sure about you, but I am rather shocked when something is shown to me that doesn’t “fit” with how my brain thinks I am.  For instance, when I”ve been shown an e-ray at the dentist that reveals a skull, with a bunch of teeth! Huh??

I had a jolt like this one time that pulled me out of my “me” identity and shocked me in two different ways as the “me” that I thought I was, blurred.  I saw revealed how my thought processes were–and they were full of assumptions and opinions…

It was quite a few years ago now.  We got a microscope for my son. I don’t remember exactly how old he was but I was showing him these “discoveries” on the slide.  First, I went out and collected a little stagnant water from the planter on the deck.  I put a little on the slide and we looked at these tiny organisms on the glass.  The first thing I realized is that I had an instant compassion for these tiny creatures just because I actually saw them; actually saw that this was a whole world of life that I didn’t even usually acknowledge.  My instinct was then to take more care and try not to damage/kill them but return them to their own habitat.

Next, I wanted to show my son some red blood cells found within MY body, living there as if just renting some space from “me.”  I pricked my finger and put a drop of blood on the slide.  What we saw were these organisms, vibrating with life–but–just for an instant, before they lay still, unmoving.  I had a strange insight.  I realized that these cells WERE “me”--and, just a few seconds ago, alive; no border that separated “them from me.”  Secondly, I saw that I had a strange notion before gathering them;  I had more compassion for the “other” creatures from the planter,  than I did for what was “me” in this case the red blood cells–it was a strange juxtaposition–seeing them as separate at first, then, understanding that they were me but also, having some kind of judgement about them as “just my blood…”–now, years later, what comes to mind is from Dogen’s Genjo Koan; they, too, were living in their environment in a similar way to the organisms in the planter..  Kind of like what Dogen said in Genjo koan, “if the bird leaves the air, it will die at once…if the fish leaves the water, it will die at once…”

I see that everything is living and dying all at the same time, each in its own element and all of these “pieces” ARE me…I have no truly separate identity, and neither do the red blood cells or the vast network of sentient and non-sentient beings that make up this “me”.  I somehow had a deeper appreciation for these cells that were living as individual cells and at the same time interconnected within a larger structure of “me.”  I think it is like this with everything.  We do have a separate self, that gets up and makes breakfast and goes about the day, and yet, we have no true boundaries if we really look deeply at everything that makes us up.  It is also true that these elements are living and dying continuously every moment—impermanence—making room for new manifestations, both within this body and without.  Being alive–and then, not alive, is happening all of the time, to all sentient beings, from single cells to full human beings. Ever arising, ever passing away, but, if we touch the ground of being–our ultimate nature–still right here, nothing lost.

So, before I continue to our next topic, does anyone want to share an experience that also jolted them in recognizing their pattern of thoughts?

Finally, for this evening, I want to talk about the 3rd (sometimes the 3rd and 4th) seal–Nirvana (and in some lineages suffering or both…)

The first two Dharma Seals which we’ve talked about– Impermanence and No-Self are universal–and a marks of all things in this conditioned world; and, they are on the same level with each other.  However, Thich Nhat Hanh explains that to put suffering on the same level as the first two is in error.  “In this conditional world,” he explains, “it is not difficult to see, for instance, that a table is impermanent and does not have a separate self (the wood, the rain, the sun, the woodworker, etc.) But, is it suffering? It is part of this world, but it is not necessarily suffering.  Suffering is not a given; not necessarily constant. Nirvana is its companion—the other side of the coin.  Thich Nhat Hanh describes Nirvana as “extinction.” Extinction of what?? Extinction of notions and ideas.  We often cause our own suffering; when we place a permanent attribute onto something and then are attached to it…The Buddha taught impermanence and nonself to help us not get caught up in “signs.” [which we will talk about next week more…] So, from the worldly point of view, there is the suffering of impermanence and non self, but from the point of view of true nature/the ultimate dimension, all concepts are silenced and at peace (nirvana.)  Nirvana is an underlying reality, although it is often obscured by suffering.

Note: In the Southern Transmission, the Three Dharma Seals are often said to be impermanence, suffering and nonself.  But in the Samyukta Agama, the Buddha taught impermanence, nonself and nirvana as the Three Dharma Seals.  In the introduction/commentary by Shohaku Okumura about Zuimonki, by Dogen, Shohaku Okumura Roshi discusses the four Dharma Seals, rather than three, and includes both suffering and nirvana as four categories–but then states that he sees these not as four separate items but rather one unified message from the Buddha.  He says, “Impermanence and no-self are the true reality of all things.  When we are blind to these truths and live based on the ideas of permanence and a fixed, independent self, everything in our lives becomes suffering.  However, when we instead awaken to this true reality, our lives become nirvana.”

This statement, for me, really hits the mark. 

So, whichever “version” of these you resonate with–great–the exploration comes back to the four noble truths: suffering, the causes of suffering, the cessation of suffering–and, the path.

The more I practice, the more I see that my mind, my thoughts are truly the cause of much of my suffering. Suffering is not the same as having pain, or physical discomfort for instance. I can have pain in my leg for instance (which I had a lot of especially as I was younger.) Yes, ok, yes pain.  But then, as I start ruminating about things–with my mind, such as: oh, NO why today?  Why today of all days when I really wanted to go on that outing with my friends…why does this always have to happen to me? I wouldn’t admit to myself this next thought…Why couldn’t I be born with a normal leg–but it was there too.  THAT becomes suffering.

Emotional suffering makes up a huge amount of our suffering, I think.  I can “add on” a huge amount of fretting over something that is SO often not even the truth. 

Here’s another example that I think other parents can relate to.   A few years ago when my son was still at home and out late,  I started worrying.  I woke up and he wasn’t home…it was getting later and later.  Yes–it was really getting late now…and then I started.  What if he was in an accident?  What if he was injured? What if something happened?  My mind went round and round.  I think I texted him and, at first, no reply.  Finally, he responded back, “MOM, I’m home and [was] asleep in bed!  I’ve been home for a while now–I was trying to be super quiet so as not to disturb you!  He doesn’t let me forget about this!  Of course, I’m not saying that something couldn’t have happened–and it does.  I’m just saying that fretting about unknown things doesn’t help! It is energy spent in an illusion; thoughts that come up in our brains that create more suffering.

We spend a lot of time in emotional responses from these thoughts that are so often not based on what is really happening.  We can make decisions about others based on our mind’s assumptions.  Often, our mis-perceptions lead us to fear, to insecurity, to anger.  I think many of you have heard the Zen story about a man on a little fishing boat, in the fog.  He starts picking out another boat in the distance…it is coming closer and closer.  He at first, doesn’t panic–surely the other person will see him and change course.  But as the boat approaches closer and closer, the fisherman starts shouting at the other boat, and becomes more and more angry and more perturbed…”what is wrong with that stupid person in the other boat??  What are they trying to do to me???”  Finally, the boat slams into the fisherman and he angrily readies to confront the other person.  He looks in the boat–and no one is there!  Such a great example of how our minds work, how they build stories–and how we can get attached to these and have such mis-perception in the midst of feeling so righteous!

The Buddha taught us not to be fooled by what we perceive.  He told Subhuti, “where there is perception, there is deception.”  A useful phrase for me is, “are you sure?”  When I first started recollecting this phrase, I didn’t like it.  I wanted to feel sure that I was correct, the way I saw things were the way they were.  Now, years later, I can’t tell you how often “I stand corrected!”  Even when I think I”m 100% sure–even when I think I am right! I use this phrase frequently!

Sometimes people think of being in the world of suffering–or, being in the world of nirvana for a lifetime.  But, whether you question, or wonder about reincarnation from lifetime to lifetime, as we talked about before, even in our own bodies, living and dying are happening all of the time.  Suffering and nirvana are both present also. When I think about being in the realm of suffering, I see that this can be transformed in a moment.  I have found myself in a realm of suffering–or a realm of hell–in an instant. For me, heaven and hell are not terms reserved for lifetimes.  My thoughts and actions can determine whether I find myself in a hell realm or in a realm of freedom–at this very moment.  It is possible to move into a realm of Nirvana–not at the end of this life, not when I am completely awakened–but right now, in this present moment.  Letting go of my ideas and notions, and incorrect perceptions, I can step into a realm of freedom.  Ofcourse, for me, I know I move back and forth all of the time, but watching how my mind works, and choosing to let go of my notions and ideas, little by little, perhaps allows a little more of my time into a realm of less suffering.

So, to end, I’d like to bring up one last quote by Thich Nhat Hanh.  He says that

 “suffering is not a basic element of existence.  It is a feeling.  When we insist on something that is impermanent and without self being permanent and having a self, we suffer.  [We can really pay attention to this phrase in our life and from a deep standpoint, perhaps see more and more into this truth; we’re often resisting something that is, or wanting something to be different…] The Buddha taught that when suffering is present, we have to identify it and then we can take steps to transform it.  He did not teach that suffering is a given always.”  Thich Nhat Hanh continues, “we practice the Three Dharma Seals to realize liberation.  If you memorize a 5,000 page book on the Three Dharma Seals–but do not apply the teachings during your daily life, the book is of no use. Only by using your intelligence and putting the teachings into practice can they bring you happiness…So, please bring practice into your own life and your own experiences.  The Buddha’s teachings are jewels, but we have to dig deeply in order to touch them fully.”

Thank you very much for your attention this evening.  Next week, I’d like to continue with The Three Doors of Liberation.  

Are there any thoughts bubbling up from these topics that we’ve covered tonight?  Any examples of how these offerings have rung true in your own life right now?  Any questions or general comments? 




 



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